17-01-2007 10:06

L'interview de Sean Ellis (Cashback) en anglais

Rencontre avec le réalisateur, à l'occasion de la sortie de son premier long métrage.

“That’s really good hot chocolate, by the way.” Up-and-coming director Sean Ellis approves my choice of beverage and before the discussion leads to the release of “Cashback”, his first feature film, we weigh the pros and cons of our drugs of choice, milk and dark chocolate: the latter gives migraines, he tells me. Unlike his film, which is a pure marvel of esthetic vision and a promising start on the Silver Screen for this former fashion photographer. In between sips of our favorite winter drink, he fills me in on the movie, “born” from the multi award-winning short film of the same name.

How did you get the idea of stopping time in the film? Does that come from your experience as a photographer, where you capture a moment in time forever?
Yeah, pretty much. I’ve always thought that the camera is like a time machine, and it freezes a moment and allows you to go back in time. And you relive that moment years after.

How is making a movie different from taking photos?
With a photo, you’re only ever dealing with a fraction of a second. And with a movie, you’re dealing with many fractions of seconds that make up a block of time that you watch as a whole, as an experience. So it’s a much different approach here.

And how is it working with actors as opposed to models?
Good question…

Don’t do models have to do some acting to a certain extent as well?
They do in some respect, I think, and as a photographer, I was very much a frustrated filmmaker. And so I used to come with a lot of input for my shoots. I used to have an idea of a) what they would look like and the story behind the visuals, and they always felt like film stills for a movie that I hadn’t made. That’s how they felt to me. So the models were sort of my actors and I would get them to be and play the rolls of the characters that I wanted in the pictures.
So I guess there’s not that much difference; It’s just that when you come up against actors, they all have a very particular way of working so you just need to figure out how they work first of all an d then you kind of figure out how you are going to work with them to get what you want. ‘Cause actors have different ways of working. Some actors like input from the director, some people don’t. They just think that you need to figure out the vibe of the acting and listen to what is it they’re asking you or what they’re not asking you. I think a lot of the time a good director is a good people’s person. Just try to keep everyone happy in a weird way to get what you want. I read this book when I was a kid called “How to Win Friends and Influence People”. I think that’s the only book a director really needs to read! (Laughs)

Who’s the most beautiful person you’ve photographed?
Good question. You’re very beautiful, I can tell you.

Thank you. I think there’s a difference between beauty and being photogenic.
There’s a very big difference, and I’ve always said the difference between a good model and a fantastic model is the difference between a good model looking at the lens and a fantastic model looking at the film. It’s about a two-inch gap, but one looks past the lens to the film. They’re the one that work all the time.

What do you think of the fashion milieu?
I don’t think fashion is a very stable career for building a grounded personality.

There’s a whole controversy now about anorexia and models. Do you think fashion can be held responsible?
I think fashion tends to play on those insecurities. I think fashion magazines can be poisonous if you are unhappy. You won’t find it in a fashion magazine. You need to work on yourself. People tell me, “You have a responsibility since you worked in fashion.” Well, fashion’s fashion. People will always look at tit; it’s up to them. I’ve done shoots with voluptuous models, I’ve done shoots with skinny models, but there is a point for me if a girl … I was actually quite lucky ‘cause I never really cast skinny girls. The other thing was underage girls as well. I never really worked with girls who were a silly age, like 14 or 15, because for me, I’ve got no vision for a 14-year-old any more than I’ve got a vision for someone who’s anorexic. But when you deal with someone with Gisele and her body, you actually think it’s just a bit freaky in a sense that it is perfect. She’s thin and tall. I think it’s interesting for a photographer to photograph that kind of model ‘cause there are not that many around. And facial-wise as well. She’s one of the girls you can stick on a beach at two in the afternoon in direct sunlight and she still looks gorgeous! It’s like when you see someone so ugly, you can’t help but stare at them sometimes. The polar opposite of that is somebody like Gisele. You can’t help but stare at her. They’re freaks of nature, but it’s just at the other end of the scale, that’s all.

You directed a video for All Saints. Is there a band you would’ve liked to work with?
There were a lot of bands and there probably still is. I’m interested in the package of a band, not just the music. When you think about people like Radiohead or U2 who, over the years, really kept this package: the music’s great, the look is great, they work with really great people, the visuals are always incredible. I always it’s those bands that are really interesting. But right now my head’s in movies. And I don’t think pop videos are what they used to be.

They were little works of art in the 80s and 90s, like the videos Russell Mulcahy directed for Duran Duran.
You’re right, even up to the late 90’s, it was still interesting. I think in the last five years, a lot of money has been dropped out of the video world and bands weren’t investing the money into the ideas. And to be honest with you, I think hip hop videos killed a lot of the creativeness, ‘cause they’re all the same.

With all the girls in bikinis and Jacuzzis…
(Laughs) Right and the wide-angle lessens.

Did you feel any pressure making this first feature film?
No more than anything else I’ve decided to spend my time doing, although I must admit a lot of my career has been driven by the words “I’ll fuckin’ show you!” (Laughs). There’s always a lot of non-believers in the world and there’s always a lot of people that don’t want to give you a chance. And if you listen to those people long enough, sometimes you actually lose the confidence to live your dream. And I’ve always been the opposite of that. When somebody says no, I always want to find a back door to make it a yes. And so when I said I wanted to make a film, all the people that said no to me just made me stronger and made me want to go and do it even more. Foe me, once I actually got on set to make a film that was how I showed that I could make films.

You just finished filming “The Broken”. What’s it about?
It’s a psychological horror film. It’s very dark, actually. Melvil Poupaud is fantastic and I enjoyed working with him immensely.

How did you choose the actors in “Cashback”?
I was so lucky in “Cashback” because we didn’t even have money for a casting agent so we made it on a shoestring. I originally wanted Jamie Bell to play the lead of Ben, and Jaime read the script and didn’t want to do it. Then someone said, “There’s a great young actor who’s just been in ‘Harry Potter’ and he’s from Scotland. Would you meet with him?” So I said yeah. I met with Sean Biggerstaff and I thought he looked right. There was something innocent about him but a t the same time, he was good-looking. He had this Scottish accent (imitates) and I couldn’t understand a thing! So I said, “Go away and make a tape of your voice in an English accent and send it to me.” And he sent it to me doing a voice-over in three or four different accents, and I knew at that point that he was bold enough to be able to do what I wanted. He had the range. So I cast him on that.
The other cast just fell into place; It was weird. Even (actor who plays) the manager, I never met before the shoot. I’d literally looked at a book of actors, because the guy that we had cast dropped out and we were filming that night. So I looked for the book, saw this guy and said, “Him – is he available?” “Yes, he’s available.” “Great, get him down tonight!”
Even when young Ben turned up on the day of the shot, I stood them together and I just thought, “You know what? I couldn’t have cast this better even if I’d tried to cast it.” So I was very lucky with casting.

And the same actors came back for the long feature.
Basically, two years later when we went back to make the feature version of it, we got all the original cast back for the reading of the script, and that was primarily to make sure none of them were suddenly 18 stone! I wanted to make sure that they all looked the same. Then we added new roles.

Is there a part of you in Ben?
Yeah, yeah, I think so … Yeah (flashes a mysterious smile).

If you could stop time like Ben, what would you do?
I don’t know actually, it’s a good question. If I could stop time … That’s my secret!

Rob a bank?
Maybe. I could finance my next movie! (Laughs)

Do you a third project?
Yeah, I just finished my new script so I hope to go straight into that.

You’ve collaborated with David Lynch. Have you seen “Inland Empire”, his new film?
No. Did you like it?

It’s complicated, three hours long, so I need to see it again.
I must admit I’m a big fan of David Lynch. He’s a friend of mine and I love what he does. We stay in contact so it’s nice. We have the funniest conversation about the menu of the diners on Sunset Boulevard!

OK, that doesn’t surprise me! What’s your favorite Lynch movie?
“Lost Highway”.

What other directors do you like? Who has influenced you in the art of moviemaking?
Many – Ridley Scott, Stanley Kubrick, John Boorman. Anyone can get in there and direct from a strict, but there’s that missing thing suddenly you grab onto and it pulls you through to the other side. That’s the magic.

Do you prefer directing your own screenplays?
Yeah, but I wouldn’t not direct a script that wasn’t written by me, if I read something I connected with. So if anyone’s got any good scripts, send it to me! (Laughs)

OK, I’ll do that! What’s the first movie you saw? Something that told you, “You can do this, too.”
I think the first film where I was really aware of the filmmaking process and the effect that the process had on me was “Alien”. I was about 12 or 13. I saw it on home video. I was very aware of the power of the film, but I understood that the power came from the fact that to had a very grown-up approach and I was very aware that I had been manipulated. I think a great film does that. Great cinema manipulates your emotions and makes you feel something even though you’re just sitting still looking at a screen. It’s a very bizarre thing.
Great cinema is like you swim in a lake and something grabs your leg and you have time to take a breath before it pulls you under.

And what’s the last movie you saw?
I saw “Dejà Vu” last night. I like Tony Scott, he’s great. And I’d love to work with Denzel Washington.

Do you have Hollywoodian ambitions?
Weirdly enough, I’ve been offered quite bug Hollywood projects. It’s not to say I wouldn’t work in Hollywood, but if I were to work in Hollywood, it’s be project-driven, not financially-driven or fame- or ego-driven. I don’t really care about that. I want to be passionate about what I do. If I’m given a chance to do what I do without interference and if they want me to do it at that level and I find a project I’m passionate about, then that’s fantastic, But I’m not really a director for hire. I can’t see myself doing …

“American Pie”!
(Laughs) Definitely not!

British actors definitely have Hollywood’s favors. I think it’s because they’re thespians more than actors. What did you think of Daniel Craig as Bond?
I think he’s fantastic! My company’s producing a film which is starring Daniel Craig.

If you weren’t a photographer and filmmaker, what would you be doing?
I might be some kind of interior designer or property developer. I like spaces.

Are you involved with the set design as well?
Only to a point where I have ideas of what I want, how I want it to look like. I’m very integrated in “The Broken” which is a very stylized movie. I was very excited to get it on film. In that sense, the design becomes a really important part of it and I really enjoyed working with my production designer, Morgan Kennedy. It was nice to finally see those sets get made and then hate them and want them gone! (Laughs)

It must’ve been interesting to shoot in a supermarket in “Cashback”. The lighting is great.
The supermarket is pretty much a self-illuminating set. It was great that we got permission from Sainsbury’s to shoot in there because to most films, they say, “We’re a supermarket, not a studio.” So many people want to shoot in supermarkets these days that they end up building them. We were lucky to actually get into Sainsbury’s and be able to shoot.

They didn’t have a problem with the nudity?
I kind of knew we’d have a problem with the nudity in there, because even though it was shut to the public, there were people working in the aisles next door while we were shooting, stacking shelves. And suddenly we bring in the world’s 14 most beautiful women standing naked and I knew we would have problems, so I just made sure we did it on the last day of filming! (Laughs) We got the call: “We heard you’re making porn!”

Nudity is sort of celebrated in your film, but do you think it is often associated with porn?
Yeah, I think it is. I think people have a hard time differentiating it. The Europeans, especially the French, they understand it and embrace it and accept it. It is what it is. When I finished “Cashback”, it did feel like a French movie to me, weirdly. I didn’t shy away from sexual scenes and of a sexual nature. They’re the sort of things that maybe you’re embarrassed to watch with your mum and dad … (Laughs) I think American society is very, very anti-nudity. It’s a weird contradiction there because they also have the biggest porn industry in the world. I mean, I don’t want to generalize on Americans because it is a place that I love and I have great American friends. In England, all we get are American movies.

What do you think of British cinema today?
Oooh, British cinema is a tricky one, actually. Because we’re an English-speaking country, we’re in direct competition with the Americans. Which is a shame because it actually means we’re second best. Most British people would rather go see an American film than a British film. If you look at the box-office, all the top films are American films, whereas it differs a little bit in France. They have their own language and the French make films for their own country; it’s a French thing. So when a French film gets released, it’s generally in the top slot of the French box-office over American films. And that’s a great thing, because that propels the industry to make French films and it means they have a self-awareness in the industry. We don’t have that, really. There’s very little support for British filmmakers, unless you are a name. I mean, there isn’t a British “Amelie”, there isn’t a British “La Haine”.

Like Ken Loach.
Yeah, exactly. It’s either you make boring films about housing estates or you make gangster films. We do our romantic comedies and our dramas, but we’re not known for our thrillers or our quirky indie movies. It’s a tough marketplace. A lot of those films are made with American money and American support. They’re kind of made for an American market, those kind of movies.  

Like all the Hugh Grant movies.
He gets on my tits. I hate Hugh Grant!

On the other hand, you have Clive Own, Daniel Craig, Hugh Laurie and even Jason Statham.
You can’t even compare him with those guys!

Et aussi
L'interview en français